Sun 25 Jul 2010
The Kid Thing…
Posted by Clare under dating in Ireland, Drogheda Ireland, living in Ireland, Moving to Ireland
[18] Comments
When I first meet people in Ireland and they find out I didn’t move over for a job, they ask the inevitable question, “Did ya move here for a fella?” Considering most American women I’ve met here did in fact follow their Irish husbands back to the homeland, I can understand why people would assume such a thing. When I tell them there is no fella and that I moved here to experience a new adventure, they usually ask if I A) want to meet a man and B) if I want to have children.
Of course it would be great to meet a fabulous, intelligent, handsome, funny, adventurous, foodie-type who loves to travel and is well-versed in current events/literature/etc. (or at least someone who possesses a few of these traits!). As for the kids question, my answer typically elicits a double-take of shock and disbelief, as if I was a three-headed alien or a talking dog. I don’t know if I want to have kids and to be honest I’m pretty sure that I probably don’t though I’d never say never. Most Irish people I encounter cannot seem to wrap their brains around the concept that a woman might not want to bear children, and I’m getting used to retorts like, “Oh you’ll change your mind – just you wait!” or “But of course you do, you just haven’t met the father!” Once, an acquaintance introduced me as, “Clare, and she says she probably doesn’t want children – can you believe that?”
The thing is I’m not a woman who was born knowing she wanted to be a mother, and I’m very lucky to have parents who never pressure me about having kids. I really like and even love [most] children and truly believe there is nothing in the world that compares to having them. I sponsor a child in Vietnam and am very dedicated to her happiness and well-being. But right now having my own children is something very difficult to imagine, perhaps because I’m well aware that my goals in life aren’t necessarily conducive to having kids. I love to travel and enjoy having the freedom to do so even on a whim. I relish having a lot of time to myself and cherish my personal space. If I do end up getting married, I want to be married without kids for a reasonable amount of time. Considering I’m in my mid-30s now and am single at the moment, it’s hard to imagine where kids fit in. I am very open and would even prefer to adopt over having my own child, but again there are many factors to consider before I can say for certain.
The topic of kids is also becoming an issue as I start dating here in Ireland. Many men I meet are absolutely certain they want to have children and the fact that I’m unsure makes me an undesirable candidate. To each his own, and I respect everyone and anyone’s choices in this department, but I have to say that some of these men are kidding themselves (no pun intended). I recently met someone in his mid-40 who, for all intents and purposes, is a bona fide player. He insists he wants to have kids “one of these days.” Let’s suss out the situation: You’re 44 years old, play the field like a teenager and hit the clubs every weekend – not exactly the picture of stability and responsibility. While I understand age isn’t as big a factor for men as it is for women, showing a bit of maturity would be a good place to start if you’re going to use the kid card as a deal breaker. Sorry to burst your bubble, but women who want to have children are not going to be seeking out a middle-aged playboy for their future BabyDaddy.
Life is unpredictable and anything can happen, even something as wild as me having a baby one of these days. But for now, I think I could be perfectly happy with a husband/long-term partner and a couple of dogs and I hope people can be OK with that idea. It doesn’t really matter whether others approve or not; this is where I am in my life at the moment and no amount of peer pressure or outside expectation is going to change how I feel. I’m fine with not knowing, and though this makes dating in Ireland a bit more difficult I can live with it. I suppose the right “fella” will be one who is able to live with that as well.
I couldn’t agree more with you on the kid issue. And I doubt the guy in your story really wants children (or even understands what having one would entail). His mother is probably nagging him to show off his “fertility” 🙂
I’ve been here for two years and completely relate to what you’ve written in this and the last post. People are shocked when they hear I don’t want kids. I’ve been told that the Irish don’t date- instead, you go to a pub, hook up with some guy who drunkenly hits on you after 11 pints, and then you get married and have 4 children. That wasn’t my cup of tea so I joined a dating website, and I feel like I’m being branded a weirdo. My friends understand how I might have a problem meeting people through the normal channels as an American, but they want to know what’s “wrong” with the Irish guys I’ve met that they can’t.
> Most Irish people I encounter cannot seem
> to wrap their brains around the concept
> that a woman might not want to bear
> children, and I’m getting used to retorts
> like, “Oh you’ll change your mind – just
> you wait!”
That particular retort might be based on personal experience – it’s not uncommon for young Irish women to claim that they have no intention of EVER having kids, and then their 30s come and the tune changes
Well, Cormac, speaking at a early thirties Irish woman, who sincerely hopes that she never has children, maybe you’re speaking from personal experience, but please don’t tar everywoman with the same brush, each to their own!!
By the by, Eileen, I couldn’t agree more, no matter what happens, remain true to yourself, which I have always done throughout my entire life, thank God, I am not a follower, I create my own life and even it is not very conventional, it is my choice, my happiness and quite frankly, none of anyone else’s damn business!!! I am single & childless and PROUD – kids are not on the agenda and I always make that perfectly clear with any man that I become serious with
you’re very very wise…stay true to yourself day by day..you are a fantastic inspiration to those of us seeking to live with personal integrity, vision, and honesty
nuts4fruits: LOL, I think you are right about that particular guy! He’s not fooling anyone, though!
Julie: I find it odd that online dating is still seen as a stigma here…it’s so common back home and in fact I know quite a few married couples who met online.
Eileen: Thank you so much for your kind and generous comment – it really touched me!
Have you ever asked a wannabe dad if he would decrease his work hours or devote his free time to changing diapers and mopping muddy floors? It’s easy to say you want kids when you’re assuming that the other partner will be the primary caregiver…
Cormac: Well I’m already well into my 30s 🙂 But again, never say never!
Eavan: Well no, I wouldn’t because I’m not that interested in having kids myself – totally understand your point, though! 🙂
A very interesting discussion!
My sister-in-law and her husband were so certain that they didn’t want children that he had a vasectomy a week after the wedding. In social situations, women would often ask her, “How many children do you have?” When she announced that she had none, there would be an awkward pause. She then added, “But I have a dog.” People always seemed relieved because the dog at least gave them something to talk about.
This thing about being shocked that you may not have kids is bigger than Ireland. I live and work in Chicago where I get asked at least 2 times a week when I am going to have kids. When I say I don’t know if I will, I get the same response “Oh you will eventually” or my own favorite “what are you waiting for, you are not getting any younger” – which I have since taken and used myself because I find it amusing. Society has an expectation that when you get married, you have kids and if you don’t, it is considered a little odd to most – not just the Irish –
Susan: Isn’t it funny how uncomfortable it makes OTHER people?! Love your dog comment and know exactly what you mean. I don’t even have a pet…people probably wonder what my point of living is, lol!
Aideen: I guess in Los Angeles I never found it to be an issue. Then again, it’s totally common for people in LA to be single in their mid-late 30s and even 40s, probably because many are focused on career. Here it seems even the idea of being single at my age is odd. I think you are right about being married tho – once you’re married you are absolutely expected to have kids, no matter where you live. Glad you are not letting the pressure get to ya!
I feel your confusion. I can’t have kids – have known this for years and I’m pretty comfortable with it. I was the luckiest woman in Ireland to meet a man who actually didn’t want kids… but people are so weird about it – insisting that we should adopt – even though we don’t want to(now I’m hitting 39, I can say that I’m over the age threshold). My ex-boss’s wife kept tormenting me after we got married asking “how things are going”. I actually had to sit her down & use words of one syllable to spell it out… NO BABIES IN THIS HOUSE. We have nieces & nephews galore, and all but one of my friends have kids – who are all brilliant, but it doesn’t mean that I lie awake at night pining for a child. Far from it. In fact, I think that we as a couple have to work harder at our relationship & marriage because we’ve no distractions in the form of kids. There’s only ever going to be the two of us & that’s a sobering thought!
If it’s going to happen, it will happen, and it will be because you want it to. No other reason.
Clare, you are dead-on with this post. I hear this type of conversation all the time…here in the country sometimes it’s all anyone talks about..who is having kids and who is not…and WHY. I know there is talk about us and why we are taking so long to have another baby and the truth is, HELLO! one is really hard!! (esp for two Aquarians!) and also we’d love to adopt..which is still another nearly “taboo” thing -again esp in rural areas.
In the past I remember meeting Irish men (not necessarily here) and was always struck that they would even ask about having kids in casual conversation…in their 20s and early 30’s! Seemed unheard of with American men to me. Frankly, I blame it on the strong church upbringing.
Imen x
Great post. You more or less describe my life and it’s trajectory to a T. Always assumed I would have kids but never thought about it deeply. Married at 33. Been married 10 years. After my friends (my non LA friends) started having kids I realized the reality is not that appealing. However, as an educator I absolutely love & adore children of all ages. I’ve got 2 dogs , a husband I love & a boatload of happiness. However! In LA no one ever looks at me like I’m weird for not having kids. Most of my friends my age are child free. I do think the dynamic you speak of exists outside of Ireland, but having lived in the UK myself I think it’s definitely amplified in Ireland, moreso than England for sure.
I am one of those who ‘followed’ her Irish husband to his homeland.
I do not want kids, I have never wanted kids and my husband does not want kids. His parents though would love for us to have kids.
I say kudos to you. I agree it isn’t limited to Ireland, surely we exist everywhere.
I often wonder if Ireland’s stance on abortion has something to do with it.
I guess I’ve broken all the taboos. My Irish partner and I met over the internet (so randomly), I already have kids and can’t have anymore (though we’ve discussed my desire to adopt or foster), and I’m older than him (even if this isn’t unusual in his family, it’s a bit unusual in the culture). This issue of cultural expectation as regards marriage and children I’ve actually heard from him. He doesn’t have any desire to father his own children, and says most Irish girls are in a mad rush to get married, etc.
Babaduck: Ack, I can just imagine the feedback you must have gotten, especially right after you married. Your story gives me hope that there are some guys out there who will be OK with the idea of maybe not having kids. 🙂
Imen: The funny thing with some of the Irish men I meet here is that they have no real desire to marry yet they are certain they want to have kids. Now I’m not old-fashioned; you do not have to get married first but their reasons for being anti-marriage is because they are committmentphobes…do they think raising children is any less of a committment than marriage?
Rach: Perhaps it does. I only recently found out that abortion is illegal here…had no idea.
Traci: My female friends are divided on the subject of marriage…I think a lot of them, like me, would like to one day but we’re not planning our weddings or creating a hope chest of wedding items, lol. But I see where you’re coming from…
The kid thing is not for everyone–stick to what your gut tells you! I wonder what people think about Rick and I not having kids, nor a dog! No one really gets excited when we say we have a cat–lol!